Dragon Lady wrote:

Victors Mate wrote:I wonder if that is what our ancestors said about windmills?

VM - the areas of natural outstanding beauty are not ours to desecrate. They belong also to the next, and the next and the next generatations ad infinitum! We MUST keep them in the state that nature gave to them. There are plenty of other places these structures can go.

That attitude through the ages would have us all still living in caves.

What worries me that the "other places" that these structures can go usually means Scotland!! As Oddie and Steve have already said we export electricity to other parts of these islands - we don't need it, we have enough for our needs but on the financial front, we have to have things we can sell to other countries to stabilise our economy...hopefully very soon - fingers crossed for the Scottish elections.

PS - you can have Trident as well!!

Rowan Switzerland have made a huge business from exporting Hydro electricity. If they wanted to there seems to be little reason why Scotland should not do likewise.

My main fear is not wind turbines my main fear is the amount of nuclear waste with a half life of goodness knows how many thousands of years, Decimated forests due to acid rain and god only knows what other nasties.

Exactly and if we don't worry about our own future, we have to worry about future generations. We treat this planet abominably and we are beginning to see the price of it.

Plenty of 'em down here in Wales folks and there are plans to put them on the common bedind my bungalow.
It's an enormous are stretching for miles and is very bleak anyway in winter so I can't say it bothers me at all.
We must be practical.

Problem with wind turbines is that they are not efficient.

Huge, monstrous things, requiring continuous and costly maintenance, destroying beautiful areas of the country.

There are better 'alternative' methods for generating energy, which are environmentally much safer, as well as vastly more efficient.

Victors Mate wrote:

Dragon Lady wrote:

Victors Mate wrote:I wonder if that is what our ancestors said about windmills?

VM - the areas of natural outstanding beauty are not ours to desecrate. They belong also to the next, and the next and the next generatations ad infinitum! We MUST keep them in the state that nature gave to them. There are plenty of other places these structures can go.

That attitude through the ages would have us all still living in caves.

So you would not object if they stuck a few in front of the Mill?

Not at all DL nor would I object to a dynamo operating from the mill stream.

Anya wrote:Problem with wind turbines is that they are not efficient.

Huge, monstrous things, requiring continuous and costly maintenance, destroying beautiful areas of the country.

There are better 'alternative' methods for generating energy, which are environmentally much safer, as well as vastly more efficient.

What are these methods Anya???

I have come to the conclusion that Wind Farms are the Pine Forests of the Twenty First Century.

Massive subsidies and profits for landowners are covering swathes of Scotland with windmills as it once did in vast forests...personally, I'd rather have the forests.

The only way that windpower would be efficient would be as individual windmills for individual houses to reduce electricity consumption....and it would still need the grid to take up the slack.

Some statistics for you................

UKWED
Statistics


Operational wind farms

Onshore
England 60 341.84 MW
Northern Ireland 12 112.45 MW
Scotland 40 1,006.89 MW
Wales 24 300.60 MW


Offshore
England 4 243.80 MW
Wales 1 60.00 MW


Total operational wind farms: 141 (2,065.58 MW)


Wind farms currently under construction

Onshore
England 14 205.20 MW
Northern Ireland 3 28.50 MW
Scotland 14 561.65 MW
Wales 3 5.25 MW


Offshore
England 3 284.00 MW
Scotland 3 190.00 MW

Total wind farms currently under construction: 40 (1,274.60 MW)


Consented projects

Onshore
England 31 428.00 MW
Northern Ireland 4 85.60 MW
Scotland 38 999.35 MW
Wales 6 68.10 MW


Offshore
England 5 2,016.00 MW
Wales 2 180.00 MW

Total consented projects: 86 (3,777.05 MW)


Projects in planning

Onshore
England 73 1,369.55 MW
Northern Ireland 47 1,178.35 MW
Scotland 91 5,261.90 MW
Wales 18 335.48 MW


Offshore
England 7 2,625.00 MW

Total projects in planning: 236 (10,770.28 MW)

So Scotland has around a third of the area of England, and, if the powers that be have their way, we are going to have windfarms onshore producing more power than England does with onshore AND offshore sites. ie..........more and larger.

Fair and equitable?

Depends what you mean by fair and equitable. Switzerland exports vast amounts of hydro electricity and see it as a valuable asset and contributor to their economy.

If Scotland has a surplus of electricity and exports it surely if there is money to be made it is just another export to contribute to the Scottish economy. I fully realise this depends on to what extent Scotland benefits from its production.

There is a difference between a surplus as in producing more than our needs and exporting it. We do that already, mainly thanks to our hydro-electric stations.

Companies are using Scotland as a vehicle for fulfilling their obligations to the UK government re renewable fuels..............and in the process damaging a tourist industry which is about the only money earner left untouched to date by the UK Government.

A surplus is one thing, thousands of MW more than our needs is another altogether.

Windpower, with the best will in the world will never replace one coal/gas/nuclear power station because it is too intermittent.
It will only ever be able to reduce consumption, not replace stations which will always be needed to take up the slack.

So why spoil our countryside to make the Government feel they are meeting their environmental commitments when, in the process they will be messing up the countryside with enormous pylons, ringing our valleys with windmills on the hills, ruining SSSIs and damaging wildlife conservation by felling large parts of forests?

I'm not against windmills..........we have one...........but we use it to reduce our electricity bills...............and that is how they should be used.............individuals and communities plugging into the grid where the electricity is being used to reduce consumption..............not transferring it to the South with the resultant extra larger pylons marching over the Scottish hills.

Anya wrote:There are better 'alternative' methods for generating energy, which are environmentally much safer, as well as vastly more efficient.

What are they Anya? Wind is not the sole anwer but a part of the whole package. Undersea turbines are a good option but then the fishing industry complains. I think that the wind turbines are a sight more aesthetical than a power station. In fact they are rather elegant. Much more so than , shall we say , some of our historic monuments. The Wall of China is a fairly hideous piece of the landscape but would we recommend demolition?

Of course we COULD harness all the hot air that exudes from Parliament we might get somewhere then!!

Sorry I'm not making light of the subject but the wicked little thought crept across the otherwise baren landscape of my mind.