So Tactful !

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So Tactful !

Postby Lacemaker » Thu May 03, 2007 1:58 am

One of our Government Senators has really put himself right in it !!!


http://www.skynews.com.au/story.asp?id=167133
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Postby Shyla » Thu May 03, 2007 6:42 am

Poor Mr. Heffernan seems to be a misguided soul!

But nevertheless, I thank Mr. Howard and the
Australian people for standing with us against the threat of radical Islamist terrorism in Iraq.

Unfortunately, we can't control our elected officials..we can only support and stand behind those we think are right and just.

Joy
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Postby Rowan » Thu May 03, 2007 6:53 am

What an appalling man. Obviously not 21st century man!! How patronising to call a woman barren. I would have clumped him over the head with acast iron frying pan. A man who has these type of views worries me - how extreme are his other views.

The situation in Iraq has been brought about by western countries trying to impose democracy on countries which have no desire for that particular type of government. I believe in democracy BUT I believe that it can only be brought about by the free will of the people, otherwise it is false and therefore not democracy.
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Postby Sass » Thu May 03, 2007 11:32 am

Don't need to read the link, Lace! This plonker is a legend for his foot in mouth disease. Misguided soul he is not Joy; total feckwit is what he is.

Just to clarify your thanks to the Australian people. Save your thanks for the Howard regime. It was estimated that two thirds of the Australian population did not want to follow America into an illegal invasion. We demonstrated in our hundreds of thousands all over this Country to try to stop this idiot and his cronies; we failed.

People here are still bitter about this. But we will hopefully deal with Howard at the ballot box.
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Postby Rowan » Thu May 03, 2007 5:47 pm

As also happened here. There were many demonstrations - I did manage to be at two of them. I believed then and I believe now that this war is illegal and unjustified.
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Postby Lacemaker » Thu May 03, 2007 7:51 pm

A friend on another forum found this information on both Heffernon and Julia Guillard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Heffernan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Gillard
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Postby Sass » Fri May 04, 2007 1:11 am

I didn't go to your previous link Lacemaker because the topic of this toecutter is very much in our face in Oz.

I have read both the Wiki links. While I know that Wiki puts a proviso on its pages that this is contributed and thus they cannot guarantee veracity; all this stuff seems to be from reliable sources. Both of these figures have their history on the public record.

Heffernan? This is what is burning the electorate in America/Britain/Australia. They can get away with ANYTHING;- and we have to wear it.

I have to wonder what calibre of candidate stood against him; it must have been an Amoeba!! Surely a halfway decent candidate could have defeated him?

For the 'home' team: Australia has an electoral system that will elect one or the other of the two major party candidates, even if they were placed last on the voting slip. Which btw; in Oz can be the size of a small tablecloth!!

If we vote "above the line"; ( a much easier 1,2,3,4, type option;) the two major parties 'share' our votes; distributing to the two major parties, (by electoral law.) If we vote "below the line"-literally there is a line;- (that is for as many as 50-60 candidates !) we control the way our vote goes.

Most people take the easy option............

The other thing that is so irritating is;- where the hell did this Labour Right/Left come in? This allows party members to retain a Labour profile with a Conservative stance!

Is it too simplistic to say that if you lean to the Right, then go Liberal/Conservative. If you are on the Left, join Labour. Factionalism has left the Left without any real representation in my view.
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Postby Max » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:17 pm

Thank you Joy, your comments are appreciated by a 7th generation Australian.

Sass, uh? You are obviously not Australian born.

Australia's Federal Election takes place on Saturday. It is held every 4 years and, as Mr. Howard has been one of our greatest Prime Ministers I've had the privilege of meeting, if Sass is infering that she will be dealing with Mr. Howard at the Polls, i.e. voting against the Liberal Party, my vote for him will negate her vote against him :roflmao:

We were taught,as children, to remain friends one should never discuss religion or politics, however, where my Country is involved and I read comments such as some of those Sass has written, it's not quite so easy to bite my tongue. I may very well be wrong, am guessing you are an import.
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Postby Rowan » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:44 pm

Well, I don't know about that Max. I have discussed bothpolitics and religion many times with my friends...things may get heated but surprise surprise, we are still friends.

Many people in this country don't like our governments marching us into an illegal war either - I certainly don't appreciate it and actually marched against it....and would do so again.
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Postby Sass » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:44 am

HA! How opportune to seek some shade and find your post of just yesterday, Max!

I am happy to respond to your comments, though I am a little concerned at the implication of your 'import' comment.... Please feel free to explain?

I have to tell you though that we do have a democracy in Australia though this has been quite dramatically reduced by Howard and his cronies;............however, with that democracy comes the right to hold an opinion which differs one from another.

Surely this is something to be enjoyed by all in a Country that has been made-up by indigenous peoples.....; and 'imports'.

I've no wish to impose upon my British compadres the vagaries of the Australian political scene. We are ALL coping with leaders that we are none to happy with; the global voting system in first world democracies, ensuring that tweedledum and tweedledumber will always remain in power.

The system survives; the people perish...what's new?

I am more than willing and able to get into a fairly robust discussion with you, but just feel that this is not the place for it...

Let us just accept Max, that you and I so clearly see things from a different political standpoint, and leave it at that.
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Postby Miriam » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:39 pm

I'm not so sure any system that has the likes of dubbya and his cronies will be able to survive and recover from these disastrous years.

The mis-guided and idiotic fool has wrought so much havoc all over the world that I'm surprised he is still walking around!

Miriam
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Postby Max » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:41 am

Sass I don't often discuss war, too many heartbreaking memories of when our Country was forced to participate. During WW2 , population of a mere 5 million in Australia, we
lost 628,000 men.

I had no intention of offending you, Lacemaker and I refer to ourselves as Australian or Aussies. Should we use the F word which neither of us do, we would word it in the Australian manner, not English. Gained the impression you must have been more recently arrived to this beautiful Country of ours :)

There are 2 situations only which make me irate, criticism of my Country and, of course, my family.

Happy to leave it at that, I was slightly irate in which you berated our Primer Minister whose Government managed to turn a $98billion foreign debt (legacy of Keating), into billions of dollars in surplus.
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Postby Rowan » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:58 pm

Acrually, the original inhabitants of Australia and New Zealand were the aborigine peoples - not very well treated by the "settlers" and often looked down on by them, same in the Americas.

What must these aboriginal peoples think of the people who came to their country and comnpletely changed their way of living?
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Postby Sass » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:53 am

The lovely thing that distinguishes Australian white settlers from it's indigenous peoples, is that we refer to "my Country". Australian aborigines refer to themselves 'being' the land. It owns them; because it sustains them.

We do not own any Country (vis: "my Country"). it is just the land we have chosen to settle for that period in time.

I confess I find nationalistic fervour to be a very divisive and negative thing. The more 'civilized' human is an extraordinarily destructive creature, destroying it's own and other life forms and destroying it's environment. NONE of us has any right to take the moral high ground, about loyalty to 'our Country'.

In any event, I was not criticizing the Country............; I was criticizing the man, who it appears has not only lost the election but has lost his seat as well.

Only the second (Bruce: 1929) Prime Minister in Australian political history to do so. Extraordinary!

But a clear message from the people that he was not their hero don't you think?

(About the 98 billion; can you provide your source for this figure? I am always interested.)

It was equally interesting that Howard offered the electorate BILLIONS back in promises if they reelected him. He had those billions to offer; that was how he reduced the debt; he took it from those who could least afford it, giving 78% of OUR money to private wealthy schools and the remaining 22% to struggling Government schools in the meantime; before he offered some of our money back to us in a panic because he knew he had stripped us of this money for the previous 11years, and we had finally had enough!!

_________________

We were "forced" into WW11 ??! Come now Max; we were not forced to participate, we committed ourself to assist our allies in what was a global war with a global threat.

A just and honourable act to defend our world against a man intent on bringing Nazism to the entire globe.

Not so since, when aggressive invasive 'wars' have been fought for the vested interests of the invaders.

In all cases I respect military personnel. But NOT (since WW11), the Governments who send Defence Forces into these Countries to get themselves and other innocent people killed.

My father retired after 45 years as a very senior ranked officer in the RAF (I mention rank to show that he saw a hell of a lot, and also to pay tribute to the fact that dad would invite his entire squadron to the house at Christmas for a party. (( I recall as a youngster pouring a young airman a schooner of fine aged whiskey! I damn near emptied the entire bottle!...he was pleased..., but most all of it was poured back!)). It was unheard of in those days to invite 'other ranks' to 'Officers Quarters'. )

Dad valued everyone. He told me how Australian troups were held in such high esteem. No military personnel Max would willingly subject their comrades to danger, and I would remind you that British losses were massive as well.

I too have served and respected my fellow servicemen and women who are without parallel in Australia AND Britain.

_______________

I would like to respond to your explanation about the F word, but cannot because I am puzzled by what you mean?
Sass
 


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